Iceland/Greenland/Faroe Islands

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Iceland/Greenland/Faroe Islands

Postby Wygene Chong » Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:36 am

Hi Michal,

I'm not sure if you have seen the post in other forums or by email, but I would like to ask if it's possible to update the vRoute boundaries for BIRD_CTR?

Information: http://forums.vatsim.net/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=66643

Sector Map: http://vatsim-scandinavia.org/atc/gener ... ctor-map-2

Easy Fix
BIRD_CTR covers south-central Greenland. So if you draw a horizontal line across the BGGL FIR at 70N until the Canadian border, then all of BGGL south of that line is also BIRD_CTR above FL195 (combined with the existing BIRD FIR). BGGL_FSS remains covering the entirety of BGGL FIR below FL195 (no change). Overall, BIRD_CTR should stretch from Europe to Canada in a demented rectangular shape.

Complete Fix
Only do this if you have the time ;) In addition to the above...
1) Look at the northern part of BIRD FIR. At 69N, draw a horizontal line from the BGGL FIR border to the eastern border of BIRD FIR. That top bit of the FIR that is cut off is not part of BIRD_CTR, it is BICC_FSS only (but not BGGL_FSS).
2) Look at the southern part of BGGL FIR. At the intersect of the BIRD FIR with BGGL FIR and CZQX FIR (6330N03900W), draw a horizontal line across to the Canadian border. Everything south of that in BGGL FIR is Gander Oceanic (CZQX_FSS) above FL195 and remains BGGL_FSS below FL195. It is not BICC_FSS or BIRD_CTR.
3) Sectorisation is as follows: BIRD_W_CTR covers the new south-central Greenland part of BIRD_CTR. BIRD_S_CTR is split from BIRD_E_CTR by a line stretching from 69N020W to 61N010W (waypoint RATSU). Essentially, this gives Iceland to S_CTR and Faroe Islands to E_CTR. Note BGGL_FSS has no sectors.
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Re: Iceland/Greenland/Faroe Islands

Postby Michal Rok » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:35 pm

I have one BIRD_CTR with the following points:

P-20,73 P0,73 P0,61 P-30,61 P-39,63.5 P-20,70 P-20,73


Can you edit that and provide me the response in the same format?
What other adjacent sectors need to be edited?


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Re: Iceland/Greenland/Faroe Islands

Postby Wygene Chong » Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:23 am

Thank you so much for your reply Michal :)

Here is the information in your requested format. Note that BIRD/BICC cross multiple FIRs. I think BIRD also dips slightly into Scottish (EGPX) FIR as well.

Iceland FIR (BIRD)
BIRD_CTR: P-64,70 P-30,70 P-30,69 P0,69 P0,61 P0.7,61 P-10,60 P-10,61 P-30,61 P-39,63.5 P-55.5,63 P-64,70
BIRD_E_CTR: P-20,69 P0,61 P0.7,61 P-10,60 P-10,61 P-20,69
BIRD_S_CTR: P-30,69 P-20,69 P-10,61 P-30,61 P-30,69
BICC_FSS: everything in BIRD & BGGL FIRs except CZQX_FSS (removes a chunk of southern Greenland)

Greenland FIR (BGGL)
BIRD_CTR: P-64,70 P-30,70 P-30,69 P0,69 P0,61 P0.7,61 P-10,60 P-10,61 P-30,61 P-39,63.5 P-55.5,63 P-64,70
BIRD_W_CTR: P-30,61 P-39,63.5 P-55.5,63 P-64,70 P-30,70 P-30,61
BGGL_FSS: everything in BGGL FIR (including CZQX_FSS) = no changes
BICC_FSS: everything in BIRD & BGGL FIRs except CZQX_FSS (removes a chunk of southern Greenland)
CZQX_FSS: same as existing boundaries plus everything south of line P-39,63.5 P-55.5,63 (takes a chunk of southern Greenland)

Hope that's not too confusing! It should look something like this: http://vatsim-scandinavia.org/wp-conten ... or-Map.jpg
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Re: Iceland/Greenland/Faroe Islands

Postby Michal Rok » Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:16 am

Wygene Chong wrote:Note that BIRD/BICC cross multiple FIRs. I think BIRD also dips slightly into Scottish (EGPX) FIR as well.


So is this a new sector just for ATC display, or a FIR boundary change?


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Re: Iceland/Greenland/Faroe Islands

Postby Wygene Chong » Sat Apr 11, 2015 6:47 am

It's a boundary change (well, not really a change as it has been there for a long time). It is delegated airspace to Reykjavik from Scottish.
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Re: Iceland/Greenland/Faroe Islands

Postby Michal Rok » Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:47 pm

In that case, could you please filter the requested changes so that we talk strictly about FIR boundaries?

You gave me the new BIRD boundary. Which other neighbouring FIRs need to be adjusted? BGGL, BICC, CZQX? I need to make sure every particle of air over there belongs to some FIR...


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Re: Iceland/Greenland/Faroe Islands

Postby Wygene Chong » Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:34 am

Sorry for the late reply.
Michal Rok wrote:In that case, could you please filter the requested changes so that we talk strictly about FIR boundaries?

You gave me the new BIRD boundary. Which other neighbouring FIRs need to be adjusted? BGGL, BICC, CZQX? I need to make sure every particle of air over there belongs to some FIR...


MIchal

If we limit it to strictly lateral FIR boundaries, then essentially everything is as already written:

BIRD_CTR boundary is changed as above (most of BIRD FIR and central part of BGGL FIR as detailed)
BGGL_FSS is exactly the same (whole of BGGL FIR)
BICC_FSS is whole BIRD FIR and BGGL FIR combined (including parts of BIRD FIR not covered by BIRD_CTR)

We would scrap the proposed changes to the CZQX-BGGL/BICC boundary (southern Greenland) because it's a different boundary depending on altitude. So just keep CZQX as it is.

EDIT: Added full coordinates again for your convenience

Iceland FIR (BIRD)
BIRD_CTR: P-64,70 P-30,70 P-30,69 P0,69 P0,61 P0.7,61 P-10,60 P-10,61 P-30,61 P-39,63.5 P-55.5,63 P-64,70
BIRD_E_CTR: P-20,69 P0,61 P0.7,61 P-10,60 P-10,61 P-20,69
BIRD_S_CTR: P-30,69 P-20,69 P-10,61 P-30,61 P-30,69
BICC_FSS: everything in BIRD & BGGL FIRs

Greenland FIR (BGGL)
BIRD_CTR: P-64,70 P-30,70 P-30,69 P0,69 P0,61 P0.7,61 P-10,60 P-10,61 P-30,61 P-39,63.5 P-55.5,63 P-64,70
BIRD_W_CTR: P-30,61 P-39,63.5 P-55.5,63 P-64,70 P-30,70 P-30,61
BGGL_FSS: everything in BGGL FIR
BICC_FSS: everything in BIRD & BGGL FIRs
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Re: Iceland/Greenland/Faroe Islands

Postby Michal Rok » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:11 pm

thanks, sorry for late reply, i'll set it up...


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Re: Iceland/Greenland/Faroe Islands

Postby Wygene Chong » Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:52 am

Michal Rok wrote:thanks, sorry for late reply, i'll set it up...


Michal

Thanks, I'll await your confirmation :)
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Re: Iceland/Greenland/Faroe Islands

Postby Michal Rok » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:14 am

Here's what BIRD_CTR looks like - feels as if there's one-degree mistake on the northern boundaries...


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Re: Iceland/Greenland/Faroe Islands

Postby Wygene Chong » Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:59 am

Thanks for the image, that helps a lot. The thing is that I'm working off my sector file boundaries which don't exactly match yours so it's a tedious process :wink: You wouldn't happen to have the numbers for the light red lines would you? Because they're exactly correct.

I've tweaked the figures below to try and match the image. Mainly raised northern boundary, fixed the curve separating E & S, and the southeastern and southwestern corners.

Iceland FIR (BIRD)
BIRD_CTR: P-64,70.3 P-30,70.3 P-30,69.2 P0,69.2 P0,61 P-7,61 P-10,60 P-10,61 P-30,61 P-39,63.5 P-55.5,63 P-64,70.3
BIRD_E_CTR: P-20,69.2 P0,69.2 P0,61 P-7,61 P-10,60 P-10,61 P-11,63.5 P-13.5,66 P-20,69.2
BIRD_S_CTR: P-30,69.2 P-20,69.2 P-10,61 P-30,61 P-30,69.2
BICC_FSS: everything in BIRD & BGGL FIRs

Greenland FIR (BGGL)
BIRD_CTR: P-64,70.3 P-30,70.3 P-30,69.2 P0,69.2 P0,61 P-7,61 P-10,60 P-10,61 P-30,61 P-39,63.5 P-55.4,63.5 P-64,70.3
BIRD_W_CTR: P-30,61 P-39,63.5 P-55.4,63.5 P-64,70.3 P-30,70.3 P-30,61
BGGL_FSS: everything in BGGL FIR
BICC_FSS: everything in BIRD & BGGL FIRs
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Re: Iceland/Greenland/Faroe Islands

Postby Michal Rok » Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:39 am

I didn't realize you went through so much trouble to get the coordinates... Which sectors would you like - all the BGs?

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Re: Iceland/Greenland/Faroe Islands

Postby Wygene Chong » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:20 pm

Michal Rok wrote:I didn't realize you went through so much trouble to get the coordinates... Which sectors would you like - all the BGs?

Michal

As long as it get's fixed, I'm happy to do the work :wink:

BGs and BIs would be great yes, then I'll just copy through the points that are relevant :) It's really only BIRD_S/E/W that are the problem, everything else is the same.
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Re: Iceland/Greenland/Faroe Islands

Postby Michal Rok » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:06 pm

No sure if my E/W/S are the same as yours, please compare to map first.

REYKJAVIK OCA SOUTH SCTR
P-10,61 P-30,61 P-30,69.333333 P-20,69.333333 P-14,66 P-12,64 P-10,61

REYKJAVIK OCA EAST SCTR
P0,61 P-10,61 P-12,64 P-14,66 P-20,69.333333 P0,69.333333 P0,61

REYKJAVIK OCA WEST SCTR
P-64,70.5 P-30,70.5 P-30,61 P-39,63.5 P-55.666667,63.5 P-57.75,65 P-64,70.5

REYKJAVIK FIR
P-20,73 P0,73 P0,61 P-30,61 P-39,63.5 P-20,70 P-20,73

REYKJAVIK OCA SCTR A
P-20,73 P0,73 P0,61 P-30,61 P-39,63.5 P-20,70 P-20,73

REYKJAVIK OCA SCTR B
P-39,63.5 P-55.666667,63.5 P-57.75,65 P-64,70.5 P-76,76 P-75,78 P-60,82 P0,90 P30,82 P0,82 P0,73 P-20,73 P-20,70 P-39,63.5

REYKJAVIK OCA NORTH SCTR
P-64,70.5 P-76,76 P-75,78 P-60,82 P0,90 P0,82 P0,69.333333 P-30,69.333333 P-30,70.5 P-64,70.5

SONDRESTROM FIR
P30,82 P0,82 P0,73 P-20,73 P-20,70 P-39,63.5 P-43,58.5 P-50,58.5 P-57.75,65 P-63.333333,70 P-76,76 P-75,78 P-60,82 P-60,90 P0,90 P30,90 P30,82
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Re: Iceland/Greenland/Faroe Islands

Postby Wygene Chong » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:31 am

Thanks Michal! You've definitely been very patient :) I think this should now be all correct below.

Iceland FIR (BIRD)
BIRD_CTR: P-64,70.5 P-30,70.5 P-30,69.333333 P0,69.333333 P0,61 P-7,61 P-10,60 P-10,61 P-30,61 P-39,63.5 P-55.666667,63.5 P-57.75,65 P-64,70.5
BIRD_E_CTR: P-20,69.333333 P0,69.333333 P0,61 P-7,61 P-10,60 P-10,61 P-12,64 P-14,66 P-20,69.333333
BIRD_S_CTR: P-10,61 P-30,61 P-30,69.333333 P-20,69.333333 P-14,66 P-12,64 P-10,61
BICC_FSS: everything in BIRD & BGGL FIRs (no change)

Greenland FIR (BGGL)
BIRD_CTR: P-64,70.5 P-30,70.5 P-30,69.333333 P0,69.333333 P0,61 P-7,61 P-10,60 P-10,61 P-30,61 P-39,63.5 P-55.666667,63.5 P-57.75,65 P-64,70.5
BIRD_W_CTR: P-30,61 P-39,63.5 P-55.666667,63.5 P-57.75,65 P-64,70.5 P-30,70.5 P-30,61
BGGL_FSS: everything in BGGL FIR (no change)
BICC_FSS: everything in BIRD & BGGL FIRs (no change)

Just also in terms of naming, which I think is correct already anyway...

- BIRD_CTR (and all variants) = Reykjavik Control
- BGGL_FSS = Sondrestrom Information
- BICC_FSS = Iceland Radio

Finally (I'm trying to fix everything :wink:), it would be really nice if...
- the map for "Europe" could be zoomed out just a bit to include the whole of Iceland (doesn't have to include Greenland). I think you can only see the Faroe Islands at the moment.
- the map for "Iceland" could be zoomed out to include central and southern Greenland (basically the whole of BIRD_CTR).

You don't have to do the maps, it's just a nice to have :)
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