Problem USING PIBAT

[PhilDur]

Hi,
I'm not new to sim but I made a long pause and it seems things have changed.
I wanted to train a bit with very simple flights, what's more simple for a french pilot than training between LFPG and LFML (CDG & Marseille) ?
I took french DGAC actual maps and built my F/P : PILUL UM975 PIBAT UM976 MTL
Vroute refuses it with a violent message

ERROR: Unknown airway/waypoint UM975 (or PIBAT is not part of UM975, or UM975 is an airway that does not include PILUL)
ERROR: Unknown airway/waypoint PIBAT (or UM976 is not part of PIBAT, or PIBAT is an airway that does not include UM975) ERROR: Unknown airway/waypoint UM976 (or MTL is not part of UM976, or UM976 is an airway that does not include PIBAT)

According to SIA - Definition of UM975


According to SIA - Definition of UM976


WP PIBAT belongs to both airways and has the same dcoordinates : 47° 48' 21"N and 4° 15' 33"E
I just noticed VOR-DME ATN (Autun) was located there in the past. I do not know if it was recently replaced with WP PIBAT.

What is wrong with such an FP
Thanks for your help

[nemesis19]

Philippe,
were you using the correct AIRAC, it should be 1101, you can change it at the top of the vRoute screen. I just tried your routing and actually got the following errors :-

ERRORS AT FL = 200:
(FPL-LOT001-IS -B738/M-SDRWY/S -LFPG1150 -N0430F200 PILUL UM975 PIBAT UM976 MTL -LFML0118 -0) PROF194: PIBAT UM976 MTL IS NOT AVAILABLE IN FL RANGE F195..F500 PROF204: RS: TRAFFIC VIA PIMUP:F195..F999 IS ON FORBIDDEN ROUTE REF:[LF2719A] UM975 PILUL PIXIS

As the errors explain, PIBAT to MTL isn't available between FL195 and FL500 and RAD LF2719A tells us that PILUL - PIXIS on UM975 is only available for traffic
Dest. LS**, LFGJ/LB/LI/LJ/LP/SD, as our destination is LFML, we aren't allowed to use this routing. This second (RAD) error is generated by EUROCONTROL, which means that the routing isn't allowed in real life. You'll have to use one of the other routes given for this pairing, either LATRA UM133 LERGA or MONOT R161 NEV R31 MTL, depending on your projected Flight Level.

Regards,
..........Adrian W.

[PhilDur]

Adrian,
It took me some time to understand, but I think I got what you mean.
Your view is that of real life ; in real life the FP is wrong, because of all constraints, if my understanding is correct PILUL departure is reserved for specific dest LS.. and traffic to Provence shoul be routed over DJL.
That's your point and in a next future I will comply to that.

My point was in the simulated world ; I'm training on the Wilco Feelthere single aisle Airbusses (Volume 1) just to get experienced with flying them before flying again live on Vatsim.
In this case the used airac is the last one and it seems waipoint PIBAT is not implemented in the airac delivered by Navigraph. There is no Eurocontrol Check in the simulated world.
I wrote the FP like PILUL UM975 PIXIS which could be entered into the PF
Then wp one after each :
PIBAT was rejected
ATN was OK
and going on with NINIS, MADOT, ETREK ending with MTL.

Looking at coordinates VOR-DME ATN, in Navigraph, has the very same definition as WP PIBAT in real life.
And that is MY point. ATN should no longer appear in FMS Databases, it should be replaced with WP PIBAT.

Of course after beieng familiar with flying Wilco Airbii, I will fly live on Vatsim with verified P/P, but it's the next story.

In any case thank you for your response, it let me feel new constraints in building realistic F/Ps.

Best regards
Fly safe

[nemesis19]

Sorry Philippe,

I was occupied the last few days so didn't have time to reply to your post, but in the latest Airac from Navigraph (1101), PIBAT is most definetly there and is part of both UM975 and UM976. If your navdata is telling you otherwise then it may be corrupted, in wich case it may be wise to re-download.

Regards,
..........Adrian W.

[PhilDur]

Hi evrybody,
Today Feb 12th ( !!! ) I tried to record the very same FP on Vroute and it does nolonger induce errors
Te new route will in coming days be available for vroute users.
What did change since last week ?
Fly safe

[nemesis19]

Probably a change in the RADs as there is a new Airac out. Haven't had chance to look as yet, a little busy on a refresher course.

Regards,
..........Adrian W.